Presentation of the Thomas Paine Institute

Blair: 00:00:08

Good afternoon.

Blair: 00:00:09

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.

Blair: 00:00:11

Welcome to episode 89 of the secular Foxhole podcast.

Blair: 00:00:15

Today we have two guests with a quite intriguing presentation.

Blair: 00:00:22

Alex Blyer and Kevin Osborne are here to discuss the Thomas Paine Institute and their

Blair: 00:00:32

other project, which I'll let them start off with.

Blair: 00:00:35

Alex, you ready?

Alex: 00:00:36

Yes. Thank you, Blair.

Alex: 00:00:38

And thank you, Martin, for inviting us to

Alex: 00:00:41

share our presentation with your audience.

Alex: 00:00:44

Kevin and I have been.

Alex: 00:00:46

Thank you.

Alex: 00:00:48

Kevin and I have been good friends since our

Alex: 00:00:50

graduate days at the City University of New York.

Alex: 00:00:53

We were in the PhD program in philosophy.

Alex: 00:00:57

In this presentation, we're going to discuss

Alex: 00:00:59

the factors that made it possible for the american colonists to form a free society, and

Alex: 00:01:07

we're going to raise the question of, do those conditions exist today, and can we form a free

Alex: 00:01:15

social system?

Blair: 00:01:16

Sounds good.

Alex: 00:01:17

Kevin, you want to say a few words?

Kevin: 00:01:19

No. Keep going, Alex. I got distracted here for a minute.

Kevin: 00:01:24

I was losing my camera.

Alex: 00:01:26

Oh, no.

Kevin: 00:01:27

I'm all set.

Kevin: 00:01:28

Go ahead.

Alex: 00:01:28

Okay, so, our goal is to kickstart a revolution, to create a free society.

Martin: 00:01:35

Now we are live, also, for your information.

Alex: 00:01:38

Okay, so, these questions form the background for our discussion today.

Alex: 00:01:45

Is it really possible for a fresh start? Is it really possible to form a free society?

Alex: 00:01:53

So, with us in spirit are Thomas Paine and Ayn Rand.

Alex: 00:01:59

Starting in January of 1776, Thomas Paine's pamphlet, Common Sense, was read by the

Alex: 00:02:06

colonists in taverns and in other social gatherings.

Alex: 00:02:12

Paine famously wrote, we have it in our power to begin the world over again.

Alex: 00:02:18

It became the theme and the leitmotif of the American Revolution.

Alex: 00:02:24

Turning to Ayn Rand and Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand ushered in a philosophical revolution

Alex: 00:02:30

that rivals both John Locke and Aristotle.

Alex: 00:02:34

In our view, she challenged us to begin the

Alex: 00:02:38

world over again.

Kevin: 00:02:40

She also made it possible.

Kevin: 00:02:41

She also made it possible, as you'll see as we

Kevin: 00:02:44

go through this.

Kevin: 00:02:45

Yes, we think so.

Alex: 00:02:48

What historical lessons can guide us in planning and creating a pre society?

Alex: 00:02:53

These are the issues we explore in this presentation.

Alex: 00:02:57

We believe that without paying attention to history and history's lessons, we think it's

Alex: 00:03:03

too late.

Alex: 00:03:04

So our answer to these questions and our ideas

Alex: 00:03:08

evolved over a period of years.

Kevin: 00:03:11

Ten years.

Kevin: 00:03:13

Yep.

Alex: 00:03:15

So, in the Prometheus connection, we explored the essential historical factors that

Alex: 00:03:23

led to America's rise and decline.

Alex: 00:03:25

At the end, we hinted at the possibility of

Alex: 00:03:28

creating a totally free society.

Alex: 00:03:31

So then we followed this up with the

Alex: 00:03:33

Prometheus frontier, in which we projected a path to create a totally free society based on

Alex: 00:03:42

the ideas in the Prometheus frontier, we wrote the essay to begin the world over again in

Alex: 00:03:48

this essay, we spelled out the conditions that existed in the 17th century that made it

Alex: 00:03:56

possible to create a free society.

Alex: 00:04:00

The conditions required to create a free

Alex: 00:04:03

society are explored in this essay and in this presentation.

Martin: 00:04:08

Alex?

Kevin: 00:04:09

Yes, go on, Martin.

Martin: 00:04:10

I will comment also that we will include in the show notes here.

Martin: 00:04:13

We are doing this live livestreaming on video and in the audio.

Martin: 00:04:17

You will also be able to see in the show notes links to these essays and the books and the

Martin: 00:04:23

audiobooks and so on.

Martin: 00:04:24

And Kevin, could you say a little short

Martin: 00:04:28

comment on that? You said it ten years time in making some

Martin: 00:04:32

reflections, some thoughts about this, your work here.

Martin: 00:04:36

Well, it's just that and Kevin and Alex.

Kevin: 00:04:38

Yeah, yeah.

Kevin: 00:04:39

We started in 2014 with the Prometheus

Kevin: 00:04:43

connection, and the latest publication that we have is the to begin the world over again.

Kevin: 00:04:51

And that's 2024.

Kevin: 00:04:53

So that's where the ten years comes from.

Kevin: 00:04:55

It seems like a lot longer, Alex, doesn't it? But in other sense, it seems like just

Kevin: 00:05:01

yesterday everything has been going so fast.

Kevin: 00:05:04

But yeah, it was a great ten years.

Kevin: 00:05:09

And we look forward to another ten and another ten after that.

Martin: 00:05:13

And Kevin, in a way, it's good that it's taken this time, because you have this

Martin: 00:05:18

booklet on your website, and I will propose that you will add that on a site called

Martin: 00:05:24

Truefans FM that are working according to value to value.

Martin: 00:05:28

And then readers and supporters could say how much they value this booklet.

Alex: 00:05:36

You bet that would be good.

Martin: 00:05:38

And then you will get real that you have also a bit further here in the

Martin: 00:05:42

presentation about real money in a modern way, backed in different ways.

Martin: 00:05:48

And that's Satouches.

Martin: 00:05:50

That's a small part of a bitcoin, but we'll

Martin: 00:05:52

come back to that.

Martin: 00:05:54

So please continue.

Martin: 00:05:55

Alex.

Martin: 00:05:55

Thanks.

Alex: 00:05:57

So, you know, from our perspective, we're fortunate to have Ayn Rand's political

Alex: 00:06:04

philosophy.

Alex: 00:06:05

She validated the principle of individual

Alex: 00:06:08

rights and its essential role in a free capitalist society.

Alex: 00:06:13

And of course, as we now know, a fully integrated philosophy is essential to defend

Alex: 00:06:19

capitalism.

Alex: 00:06:23

So we believe that regulations tend to

Alex: 00:06:25

proliferate, that bureaucrats tend to resist deregulation because it can put them out of a

Alex: 00:06:32

job.

Alex: 00:06:34

The current freedom movement is based on

Alex: 00:06:37

incremental positive change.

Alex: 00:06:40

But rolling back regulations, we believe, is a

Alex: 00:06:43

good thing, but we don't think it will lead to a free society.

Alex: 00:06:48

And this, we believe, is the first lesson of history that we need to pay attention to.

Alex: 00:06:54

As regulations proliferate, an ineffectual regulation is typically followed by another

Alex: 00:07:01

regulation to supposedly fix the first ill conceived regulation regulations tend to

Alex: 00:07:09

operate in a ratchet effect, encroaching on our freedoms.

Alex: 00:07:14

So how did this start? We believe that a major starting point was the

Alex: 00:07:20

Supreme Court decision of Munn versus Illinois.

Alex: 00:07:25

This decision famously said that any property clothed with a public interest is subject to

Alex: 00:07:32

government regulation and control.

Alex: 00:07:35

This opened the floodgates.

Kevin: 00:07:38

Yeah. There's no business in the world that isn't clothed with a public interest of

Kevin: 00:07:44

some kind.

Kevin: 00:07:45

So it was a giveaway, the fact that we have

Kevin: 00:07:48

the public interest mentioned in the constitution the way it is.

Kevin: 00:07:52

Public interest, the general welfare and phrases like that.

Kevin: 00:07:58

It's really a setup for the government, an invitation basically, for the government to

Kevin: 00:08:03

intervene in the economy.

Kevin: 00:08:05

And as we'll see, that's exactly what

Kevin: 00:08:08

happened.

Blair: 00:08:08

Just a minor question, if I may, real quick.

Blair: 00:08:11

Who was the chief justice or who issued that Supreme Court?

Blair: 00:08:17

I know you weren't around back then, but.

Kevin: 00:08:19

Yeah, no, no, I had.

Kevin: 00:08:23

I can look it up real quick.

Blair: 00:08:24

Yeah, go on, Alex, if you want.

Kevin: 00:08:27

To, but go ahead.

Martin: 00:08:29

And I will also have another question.

Martin: 00:08:31

Who is the public?

Martin: 00:08:33

And what about the smallest minority individual?

Kevin: 00:08:37

Yes, that's right.

Kevin: 00:08:38

Yeah.

Blair: 00:08:39

Very good questions.

Kevin: 00:08:40

It's a. It's why those terms like public interest and public welfare were

Kevin: 00:08:45

contradict to rand.

Kevin: 00:08:47

She said they're contradictions in the

Kevin: 00:08:49

constitution.

Kevin: 00:08:50

They contradict freedom, in other words,

Kevin: 00:08:51

freedom of the individual.

Alex: 00:08:54

So we believe that the lure of free money and benefits builds fiscal

Alex: 00:08:59

constituencies that keep voting for more regulations to enable the government to steal

Alex: 00:09:05

from Peter to pay coal.

Alex: 00:09:07

Now, we believe that the preponderance of

Alex: 00:09:10

evidence is that regulations cannot be rolled back.

Alex: 00:09:15

They tend to become permanent.

Alex: 00:09:17

So what historical lessons can guide us?

Alex: 00:09:22

The answer can be found in the story of America's rise and decline that we explored in

Alex: 00:09:28

the Prometheus connection.

Martin: 00:09:30

And Kevin, could you give a little short description?

Martin: 00:09:35

Who is Prometheus?

Kevin: 00:09:38

Prometheus, the great, great myth of ancient Greece.

Kevin: 00:09:46

It's probably the most famous myth of all time.

Kevin: 00:09:52

And he's the symbol of defiance, defiance to the gods, defiance to authority.

Kevin: 00:09:59

And he's the introduction of the Prometheus connection.

Kevin: 00:10:04

Surveys the extent and the power of that myth throughout history.

Kevin: 00:10:11

It's seen throughout the world, many countries, probably most countries.

Kevin: 00:10:16

And the statues are in Rockefeller center in New York.

Kevin: 00:10:21

They're in the Duluvre.

Kevin: 00:10:25

It's just very, very widespread image, and it

Kevin: 00:10:31

represents the spirit of America's founding, which was reason based defiance.

Kevin: 00:10:39

Prometheus was the first simp.

Kevin: 00:10:41

A great symbol for that, because what he did

Kevin: 00:10:44

was he stole the fire of the gods, the fire that is believed to be the fire of reason.

Kevin: 00:10:51

And he stole it and gave and brought it to mankind and dispel the darkness that prevailed

Kevin: 00:10:58

before that time.

Kevin: 00:10:59

So it's a wonderful myth.

Martin: 00:11:01

It is.

Martin: 00:11:02

And now it's to protect the fire and keep it

Martin: 00:11:05

going.

Martin: 00:11:06

And we will also include in the show notes

Martin: 00:11:09

conversation that we had with you, Kevin, because you're returning guests.

Martin: 00:11:13

So please continue.

Martin: 00:11:15

Alex.

Alex: 00:11:16

Okay. Well, in America's rise, individual rights were protected in our

Alex: 00:11:22

founding documents.

Alex: 00:11:24

Consequently, we became the world's superpower

Alex: 00:11:28

in what we call hard defense.

Alex: 00:11:31

However, our self defense, our philosophy and

Alex: 00:11:35

culture are in serious decline.

Alex: 00:11:38

We plan to use Rand's political philosophy to

Alex: 00:11:43

improve on these documents and laws.

Alex: 00:11:46

So what were the key steps in America's

Alex: 00:11:49

decline? So we believe that the essential factors, the

Alex: 00:11:56

laws that were put in place were, first of all, the 1877 Munn v. Illinois Supreme Court

Alex: 00:12:04

decision.

Alex: 00:12:06

Shortly following that, in 1887, we had the

Alex: 00:12:09

interstate Commerce act to regulate business.

Alex: 00:12:12

And then in 1890, we had the Sherman Antitrust

Alex: 00:12:16

act.

Alex: 00:12:17

Under, we believe, a company can be sued by

Alex: 00:12:20

the government for virtually anything it does.

Alex: 00:12:24

Of course, in 1913, we had the establishment

Alex: 00:12:26

of the Federal Reserve to control money in our country.

Alex: 00:12:31

And the famous 16th Amendment, the income tax, came into effect in 1913, and ever since then,

Alex: 00:12:40

taxes have been increasing.

Alex: 00:12:43

Well, we wanted to point to another

Alex: 00:12:46

interesting factor in the erosion of the power, the erosion of the balance of power

Alex: 00:12:55

between the states and the federal government.

Alex: 00:12:58

The civil war was a critical event in american

Alex: 00:13:03

history.

Alex: 00:13:04

It led to the necessary end of slavery and

Alex: 00:13:08

improvement of freedom for all Americans.

Alex: 00:13:11

However, it also changes the balance of power

Alex: 00:13:15

between the federal government and the states.

Alex: 00:13:17

The states have little control now over the

Alex: 00:13:21

ever growing power of the federal government.

Alex: 00:13:23

They can't secede from the union if they

Alex: 00:13:26

wanted to create a free society.

Alex: 00:13:29

So, in essence, we believe America's rise was

Alex: 00:13:32

due to freedom and its decline was due to coercive laws and regulations.

Alex: 00:13:40

So the great tragedy of America.

Alex: 00:13:45

We believe the essential factor, one of the

Alex: 00:13:47

essential factors was driven by bad philosophy in our government controlled educational

Alex: 00:13:55

systems.

Alex: 00:13:56

America's educational system has been

Alex: 00:13:58

corrupted from top to bottom by bad ideas.

Alex: 00:14:03

This fueled America's decline.

Martin: 00:14:06

Alex, could you also point out the date there of the year 1784?

Alex: 00:14:14

What are you referring to there?

Martin: 00:14:15

You had that in parenthesis, the year 1784.

Martin: 00:14:18

So when it was an important year.

Alex: 00:14:24

I think 1784 was the.

Alex: 00:14:29

Oh, did you say?

Alex: 00:14:30

Oh, I'm not sure what you're referring to.

Alex: 00:14:35

Why was the formation of the constitution?

Alex: 00:14:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Blair: 00:14:39

Let me throw something in and see if both of you gentlemen agree.

Blair: 00:14:44

I myself have long held when the last of the founders passed away.

Blair: 00:14:49

America has been intellectually unguarded ever since.

Blair: 00:14:53

Until Ayn Rand.

Blair: 00:14:55

Does that make sense to you?

Alex: 00:14:57

I would.

Kevin: 00:14:58

It sure does.

Kevin: 00:14:59

I would totally agree with that.

Blair: 00:15:02

Yeah.

Kevin: 00:15:03

Ayn Rand is absolutely a world historical figure, and she truly was a

Kevin: 00:15:11

revolution.

Kevin: 00:15:12

We were lucky.

Kevin: 00:15:14

We were so lucky to be living at the time when she was alive.

Blair: 00:15:18

That's true.

Blair: 00:15:19

That's what I've often felt that.

Blair: 00:15:21

And believed that.

Blair: 00:15:22

Yes.

Blair: 00:15:22

Yeah.

Blair: 00:15:23

Happy to be alive when she was around.

Alex: 00:15:25

Yeah, yeah, I do, too.

Blair: 00:15:28

Go ahead, Alex, whenever you're ready.

Alex: 00:15:31

Yeah. Kevin and I were fortunate enough to go to some early lectures and hearing rand

Alex: 00:15:39

and going to the Boston seminars where she spoke.

Blair: 00:15:45

Wow.

Martin: 00:15:46

A Ford hall forum.

Alex: 00:15:49

Yep. Yep. I went there many times.

Alex: 00:15:54

So, just going on with our presentation, we

Alex: 00:15:58

believe that America's documents were works of genius.

Alex: 00:16:02

But as we now know, without a fully integrated philosophy, society can be undermined by bad

Alex: 00:16:08

ideas.

Alex: 00:16:09

Philosophies lived in the background, shaping

Alex: 00:16:12

society's values and actions.

Alex: 00:16:15

And so we believe that the loopholes and vague

Alex: 00:16:18

ideas in our founding documents led to a decline in our liberties.

Alex: 00:16:24

America's founders failed to explicitly define core political principles of rights and the

Alex: 00:16:30

sole role of government to protect our rights.

Alex: 00:16:34

They also made compromises to their principles

Alex: 00:16:37

to get the constitution ratified.

Alex: 00:16:40

Of course, the civil war was the tragic result

Alex: 00:16:43

of their compromise on the issue of slavery.

Alex: 00:16:47

So we believe that John Locke's philosophy did

Alex: 00:16:49

not give them all the intellectual ammunition they needed to back up the constitution.

Blair: 00:16:57

Still, they came pretty far.

Alex: 00:16:59

Yeah, well, we're still reaping the benefits.

Blair: 00:17:04

Yes, we are.

Alex: 00:17:05

Their constitution and the bill of rights.

Alex: 00:17:08

So what are the essential conditions of history that we keep alluding to?

Alex: 00:17:15

Our analysis of history has led us to conclude that philosophy, territory, defense, human and

Alex: 00:17:22

fiscal resources were essential in the formation of the United States.

Alex: 00:17:28

The colonists were able to form a free society with the philosophy of the Enlightenment by

Alex: 00:17:35

capturing the territory of the 13 colonies with their intransigent resolve and allies and

Alex: 00:17:42

the help of their great intellectuals.

Alex: 00:17:45

So are these conditions still necessary?

Alex: 00:17:48

Yes, of course.

Alex: 00:17:49

We believe absolutely.

Alex: 00:17:52

So, in these five conditions, of course we believe that philosophy is the most important.

Alex: 00:18:01

Some might argue that we're halfway there.

Alex: 00:18:05

However, the relative importance of these

Alex: 00:18:07

conditions is impossible to assess.

Alex: 00:18:11

In our fictional novel, the Promethean

Alex: 00:18:13

frontier, we gave a possible answer, possible path forward.

Alex: 00:18:18

The novel portrays one potential approach to creating a free synth on.

Alex: 00:18:25

Now, in our novel, we defined a declaration of freedom, and we believe it's critical.

Alex: 00:18:31

It's a critical part of the free society that we wrote about the Declaration of freedom is

Alex: 00:18:38

in three parts.

Alex: 00:18:39

It's modeled after Jefferson's declaration of

Alex: 00:18:42

independence.

Alex: 00:18:44

Of course.

Alex: 00:18:44

We incorporated key elements of objectivism's political philosophy, including rights, the

Alex: 00:18:51

role of government, and so on.

Alex: 00:18:53

We made the case for new start and declared

Alex: 00:18:55

our goal as capitalism in the framework of a constitutional republic.

Alex: 00:19:01

In our novel and in our approach, we incorporate our declaration of freedom in our

Alex: 00:19:07

new constitution.

Alex: 00:19:08

So why a new place?

Alex: 00:19:12

Again, we believe there's a mistaken premise in the current freedom movement, that

Alex: 00:19:18

incremental change will bring about a free society.

Alex: 00:19:22

We believe that ratcheting, government, coercion, government regulations make a

Alex: 00:19:28

reversal virtually impossible.

Alex: 00:19:34

Ayn Rand's philosophy is revolutionary and it

Alex: 00:19:39

inspires us.

Alex: 00:19:41

It explained the reasons for America's

Alex: 00:19:44

decline, and it gives us the essential ideas to support a free capitalist socio economic

Alex: 00:19:51

system.

Alex: 00:19:52

To paraphrase the words of a famous communist

Alex: 00:19:56

agitator and revolutionary, revolutionary.

Alex: 00:20:00

We are the ones we've been waiting for.

Alex: 00:20:03

Freedom's champions.

Alex: 00:20:05

We will create a free society.

Alex: 00:20:07

To this end, we call it the Thomas Paine Institute, to create a new free society.

Alex: 00:20:13

And paraphrasing Thomas Paine, our rallying cry is that we have it in our power to start

Alex: 00:20:21

the world over again, this time from scratch and in a new place.

Kevin: 00:20:26

And get it right.

Alex: 00:20:28

And get it right.

Alex: 00:20:31

So, question becomes, why form a new

Alex: 00:20:35

organization? What's our uniqueness?

Alex: 00:20:39

And we believe that it's in our goal to establish a free constitutional republic in a

Alex: 00:20:45

new place.

Alex: 00:20:46

This is critical.

Alex: 00:20:48

Second, that our sole focus is overcoming the challenges to our goal.

Alex: 00:20:54

So these are our next steps.

Alex: 00:20:58

So the question is, are you up to the

Alex: 00:21:01

challenge? If so, contact us on our website.

Alex: 00:21:05

Send us your email address, your name and email address, and lend us your moral support.

Alex: 00:21:10

Now we open it up for discussion.

Blair: 00:21:13

Thank you, Alex. That was great.

Blair: 00:21:14

Thank you very much.

Blair: 00:21:17

Thomas Paine was the one who suggested the declaration, or a declaration, is that

Blair: 00:21:23

correct?

Alex: 00:21:25

I think so.

Kevin: 00:21:26

Yes. Yes, he did.

Kevin: 00:21:28

Early in 1776, January or February, he.

Kevin: 00:21:36

Wait a minute.

Kevin: 00:21:37

What was the question again?

Blair: 00:21:39

He was the one who suggested a declaration of independence.

Blair: 00:21:45

Thomas Paine was the original Thomas Paine.

Kevin: 00:21:47

Right. And Jefferson picked up on it.

Kevin: 00:21:50

And within a matter of months, half a year, he

Kevin: 00:21:54

had created the Declaration of Independence.

Blair: 00:21:58

Well, give our audience a short bio, then, of Thomas Paine.

Blair: 00:22:02

I know he wrote common sense in the age of reason.

Blair: 00:22:06

I believe.

Alex: 00:22:08

Thomas Paine continued to write pamphlets and articles that motivated the

Alex: 00:22:13

colonists to fight the war.

Alex: 00:22:16

Unfortunately, towards the end of his life, he

Alex: 00:22:18

went back to England and he got into all kinds of trouble, and he actually died.

Alex: 00:22:24

As a pauper, unfortunately.

Alex: 00:22:27

And there were other people in the revolution,

Alex: 00:22:33

like Gouverneur Morris, Robert Morris.

Alex: 00:22:37

He was instrumental in helping to finance the

Alex: 00:22:41

food and clothing for the american colonial army.

Alex: 00:22:46

He was very wealthy after the revolution.

Alex: 00:22:52

He believed that there were great

Alex: 00:22:54

opportunities in land, so he got involved in extensive land speculation out west, and as a

Alex: 00:23:04

consequence, he actually went bankrupt, and he actually died a poor man.

Alex: 00:23:10

So there's a lot of irony in, you know, with some of the founders.

Alex: 00:23:15

You know, many of the founders were really worried that the constitution would not hold.

Alex: 00:23:23

So there was a lot of debate, a lot of debate about many issues at that time.

Martin: 00:23:31

And we will also include that in the show notes, because, blair, we have had guests

Martin: 00:23:36

on our show talking about Thomas Paine, also in the past.

Martin: 00:23:40

So that's really interesting about this positive character.

Martin: 00:23:46

I would ask you, Kevin and Alex, about these five different areas.

Martin: 00:23:51

They're looking forward a bit.

Martin: 00:23:53

Now, you said the philosophy was a. Yes, human

Martin: 00:23:56

resource.

Martin: 00:23:57

We have fiscal resources also.

Martin: 00:24:01

Of course, if you get the support and continue support, and then real estate is in so and so,

Martin: 00:24:08

and then the defense also.

Martin: 00:24:10

Could you talk a little bit more about that?

Martin: 00:24:13

Kevin and Alex?

Alex: 00:24:15

Obviously, we have the philosophy of Ayn Rand to guide us, and it's so revolutionary

Alex: 00:24:20

and so powerful.

Alex: 00:24:23

You know, that's incredibly vital to starting

Alex: 00:24:26

a free society.

Alex: 00:24:28

In terms of intellectuals, human resources.

Alex: 00:24:30

We have many, many new intellectuals who've written many, you know, they've written

Alex: 00:24:36

extensively about how to, how to form greater freedoms in our country.

Alex: 00:24:43

We also have many, many extremely wealthy people who would welcome, welcome living in a

Alex: 00:24:51

free society.

Alex: 00:24:52

So we're hopeful, even unwealthy people.

Martin: 00:24:59

Even poor capitalists.

Alex: 00:25:02

Well, we're all soldiers in this fight.

Blair: 00:25:06

That's right.

Alex: 00:25:07

I've met some of these wealthy people, and I think they could be instrumental in

Alex: 00:25:13

helping us find territory.

Alex: 00:25:18

They could possibly carve out some area that

Alex: 00:25:23

we could get a 99 year lease on and establish a free society using our principles of

Alex: 00:25:30

freedom.

Alex: 00:25:32

And we believe that if such a society were

Alex: 00:25:35

formed, just like Hong Kong became a tremendously successful, pro free market

Alex: 00:25:44

capitalist society, we believe that if we formed a free economic area, that people would

Alex: 00:25:49

flock to it, not just billionaires, but people who want freedom.

Martin: 00:25:54

Do you think the bigger chance is in the United States of America as an american

Martin: 00:26:00

spirit, but other places in the world, or do you see other opportunities and places in the

Martin: 00:26:07

world?

Alex: 00:26:09

I think it's going to need to be in a different place where there's a modicum of

Alex: 00:26:15

support or allies.

Alex: 00:26:18

For example, what's happening in Argentina

Alex: 00:26:21

with the advent of Javier Lille, who's very pro free market.

Alex: 00:26:28

If we could buy some land or lease some land in Argentina and have his support, that would

Alex: 00:26:36

help with defense.

Alex: 00:26:39

One of the approaches to defense is to have

Alex: 00:26:42

countries as allies that basically want freedom or want to see freedom succeed in some

Alex: 00:26:50

location.

Martin: 00:26:53

And that will be a follow up, then.

Martin: 00:26:56

Have you reached out to the american

Martin: 00:26:58

capitalist party?

Alex: 00:27:00

We know some of the members, and.

Martin: 00:27:03

We have had one on our show.

Martin: 00:27:05

Blair.

Martin: 00:27:06

Yeah, I know Andy Bernstein.

Martin: 00:27:08

Yes, I think parts of the material on the

Martin: 00:27:12

website.

Martin: 00:27:12

So.

Blair: 00:27:13

Yeah. Yes.

Alex: 00:27:15

Yeah.

Blair: 00:27:15

Listen, gentlemen, I've got a few questions from your latest pamphlet, if I may.

Kevin: 00:27:20

Sure.

Blair: 00:27:22

I've only recently heard the constant constitution described this way as the laissez

Blair: 00:27:27

faire constitution.

Blair: 00:27:28

I had never heard that until, like, the last

Blair: 00:27:30

four or five months.

Blair: 00:27:32

Is that what has.

Blair: 00:27:33

Has it been known that since its inception or I. Oh, no, constitution.

Kevin: 00:27:40

Oh, we got that from someone who's living today.

Kevin: 00:27:43

Great.

Kevin: 00:27:43

A great intellectual by the name of Bradley

Kevin: 00:27:45

Thompson.

Blair: 00:27:46

Aha.

Kevin: 00:27:47

Right.

Blair: 00:27:48

Okay. Yeah, he is fantastic.

Kevin: 00:27:52

And I had never heard it before, Bradley Thompson's use of it.

Kevin: 00:27:58

But, Alex, maybe you have.

Kevin: 00:28:00

I don't.

Alex: 00:28:00

I don't know.

Alex: 00:28:01

No, that's the.

Kevin: 00:28:03

Both Alex and I read Bradley Thompson as.

Kevin: 00:28:06

Through so many others.

Alex: 00:28:07

Yeah. Professor Thompson heads up capitalist Institute at Clemson University.

Blair: 00:28:15

Yes.

Alex: 00:28:16

And there's about 15 people there who are teaching courses for young people, courses

Alex: 00:28:22

on capitalism using Rand's philosophy.

Alex: 00:28:26

So that's a very encouraging sign.

Blair: 00:28:29

Well, I think her ideas are an aspect of that entire course, but not.

Blair: 00:28:35

I don't think they're the foundation.

Blair: 00:28:37

I hope I'm wrong, because I've seen some of

Blair: 00:28:40

the, you know, the syllabus, and there's.

Blair: 00:28:42

Of course, you have to study Marx, you have to

Blair: 00:28:45

study Kant.

Blair: 00:28:45

You have to study those.

Blair: 00:28:48

Those intellectuals.

Blair: 00:28:50

I'll use that term loosely, but.

Blair: 00:28:53

Because you have to, quote, know your enemy.

Blair: 00:28:58

But, yes, he is such an eloquent writer about

Blair: 00:29:01

America's founding era.

Alex: 00:29:03

Yeah.

Kevin: 00:29:04

Yes, he is fabulous.

Blair: 00:29:07

Let me see what else I might have for you.

Blair: 00:29:08

Oh, wait a sec.

Blair: 00:29:09

I think that you agree with me that even

Blair: 00:29:13

though the founders thought that government should have a role in education, I think in

Blair: 00:29:19

the beginning it was largely private.

Blair: 00:29:21

So I think, again, there was another loophole

Blair: 00:29:24

that got exploited.

Blair: 00:29:25

And today we just have this monstrous,

Blair: 00:29:27

horrifying Leviathan of education that's just indoctrination, not education.

Alex: 00:29:34

Right.

Kevin: 00:29:35

Yep.

Alex: 00:29:36

And, you know, the recent riots at universities supporting the terrorists and

Alex: 00:29:42

Hamas and Hezbollah are clear indication to where bad ideas lead to.

Alex: 00:29:48

Right.

Blair: 00:29:49

Right. Now, again, I think Miss Rand commented on John Dewey as being one of the

Blair: 00:29:55

villains, I guess.

Blair: 00:29:58

But unfortunately, he, again, he is one of the

Blair: 00:30:00

standard bearers of today's education.

Blair: 00:30:02

But, yes.

Alex: 00:30:03

Well, you know, he headed up the educational department at Columbia University,

Alex: 00:30:10

so his ideas became widely known because Columbia University's teaching college is

Alex: 00:30:21

where people go to get educated, and then they go all over the country promoting these ideas.

Kevin: 00:30:27

Yeah. And Andy Bernstein brought that up very, very clearly and concisely.

Kevin: 00:30:33

And in his book, why Johnny still can't read, write, do math, that book.

Kevin: 00:30:40

Yes, we quote from that to some extent in the.

Kevin: 00:30:45

In the latest book.

Blair: 00:30:46

Okay. Okay. All right, Martin, you have anything else to add, gentlemen?

Blair: 00:30:52

Anything else to add?

Martin: 00:30:53

Yeah, we will definitely do a, as I said, follow up office.

Martin: 00:30:57

And what will be the call to action here, the next step to the viewer here on the live and

Martin: 00:31:04

listener of the audio and also the program?

Alex: 00:31:07

We are, you know, we're launching a marketing campaign to recruit objectivists to

Alex: 00:31:12

work with us.

Alex: 00:31:12

We need people with expertise in management,

Alex: 00:31:15

recruiting, finance, etcetera.

Alex: 00:31:19

So we're going to be reaching out more and

Alex: 00:31:22

more to communities that favor freedom, and we hope to create a virtual community of people

Alex: 00:31:31

dedicated to these goals.

Blair: 00:31:33

That's great.

Blair: 00:31:34

That's great.

Martin: 00:31:34

And could you then repeat the URL of a website?

Alex: 00:31:41

Yeah, our website is Thomas Paine institute.com.

Alex: 00:31:46

thomaspain institute.com.

Kevin: 00:31:49

And it's in construction at this time still.

Alex: 00:31:52

Yeah, yeah.

Martin: 00:31:54

Good work on the construction, and that's great.

Kevin: 00:31:56

Getting close.

Blair: 00:31:58

Very good.

Blair: 00:31:58

Okay.

Martin: 00:31:59

And I want, I want to, I see here on the slide here, too.

Martin: 00:32:02

I will describe that for the listeners in future when you talk about the territory, a

Martin: 00:32:07

free area and a potential currency, a gold backed stable cyber coin using blockchain

Martin: 00:32:13

software.

Martin: 00:32:14

And that's already available, called bitcoin.

Martin: 00:32:17

And if you want to support this podcast, the secular foxhole, you could send a booster

Martin: 00:32:22

gram, a digital telegram with a donation of satouches.

Martin: 00:32:27

And if you take one bitcoin and divide it 100 million times, you get the satoshi.

Martin: 00:32:33

And I have started my own hub or node, so there you could have outgoing incoming

Martin: 00:32:39

transaction financial transactions of satoshis.

Martin: 00:32:43

So this is interesting.

Martin: 00:32:46

So I think we are in the right time, in a way,

Martin: 00:32:51

and we should thank the founding fathers and others, Rand especially, of course, and your

Martin: 00:32:58

work here, and that you have been able to present that in this great way.

Martin: 00:33:03

So please, Alex and Kevin, what's your ending? Wrap up your thoughts about this for the

Martin: 00:33:09

future.

Alex: 00:33:10

Well, I wanted to end with a quote from Thomas Paine.

Martin: 00:33:14

Please do.

Alex: 00:33:15

And the quote is.

Alex: 00:33:17

These are the times that try men's souls.

Alex: 00:33:21

The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service

Alex: 00:33:27

of their country.

Alex: 00:33:28

But he that stands it now deserves the love

Alex: 00:33:32

and thanks of man and woman.

Alex: 00:33:34

Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered.

Alex: 00:33:39

Yet we may have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the

Alex: 00:33:45

triumph so we endure.

Kevin: 00:33:49

I think that's great, Alex.

Blair: 00:33:51

It is great, Alex. Thank you for that.

Alex: 00:33:53

Yeah.

Blair: 00:33:54

Thank you, Thomas Paine.

Kevin: 00:33:57

And thank you, Martin and Blair, for having us on.

Kevin: 00:34:01

I mean, this venue is so great, and you're so generous in getting us ready for this and

Kevin: 00:34:09

using technology, Martin, that you're so skilled in the.

Kevin: 00:34:13

It's really.

Kevin: 00:34:14

It's really a wonderful, wonderful stuff.

Alex: 00:34:17

Yeah, we really appreciate it, guys.

Blair: 00:34:19

And you're welcome.

Martin: 00:34:20

Thanks again for your generous support in different ways and for coming here on the

Martin: 00:34:24

show.

Martin: 00:34:24

And it will be a follow up, that's for sure.

Alex: 00:34:28

Okay. To be continued, guys.

Alex: 00:34:29

Thank you.

Blair: 00:34:30

That's right.

Blair: 00:34:30

To be continued.

Blair: 00:34:31

Sounds wonderful.

Blair: 00:34:32

Okay, well, Martin, that's a wrap.

Martin: 00:34:34

Yeah.

Blair: 00:34:35

Thanks for visiting with us in the foxhole today, guys.