Episode 88

Ayn Rand's Homes and other Sites of Interest

Published on: 23rd August, 2024

Today we talk with Mike Berliner and Anu Seppala about their book, Russia to America: A Guide to Ayn Rand Homes and Sites. We cover Miss Rand's journey from Czarist Russia to the United States and the homes and business offices she lived in/used during her remarkable life.

Call-to-Action: After you have listened to this episode, add your $0.02 (two cents) to the conversation, by joining (for free) The Secular Foxhole Town Hall. Feel free to introduce yourself to the other members, discuss the different episodes, give us constructive feedback, or check out the virtual room, Speakers' Corner, and step up on the digital soapbox. Welcome to our new place in cyberspace!

Show notes with links to articles, blog posts, products and services:

Episode 88 (52 minutes) was recorded at 2200 Central European Time, on August 9, 2024, with Ringr app. Martin did the editing and post-production with the podcast maker, Alitu. The transcript is generated by Alitu.

Easy listen to The Secular Foxhole podcast in your podcast (podcatcher) app of choice, e.g., Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, Gaana, Listen Notes.

Even better is to use one of the new podcast apps, on Podcast Index, supporting the Podcasting 2.0 initiative, and Value for Value model, by streaming Satoshis (bits of Bitcoin), and sending a Boostagram (digital telegram with a donation of sats). 

Check out the Sam Sethi's new service called, TrueFans. Become a fan of our podcast there. Listen to The Secular Foxhole podcast, "and pay the price you want for the value you hear."



This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcript
Blair:

Good afternoon and good evening, ladies and gentlemen.

Blair:

Today on the secular foxhole podcast, we have two guests, Michael Berliner and Anu Sepala.

Blair:

I hope I pronounced that correct.

Blair:

They are the authors of a compelling book

Blair:

called Russia to America, a guide to Ayn Rand homes and sites.

Blair:

Mike, Anu, how are you doing? Well, great, great.

Blair:

How were.

Blair:

How were the photos obtained?

Blair:

Did miss Rand have many of them herself, or did you.

Blair:

Did you and Anna Anu scour the archives, so to speak?

Mike:

Anna, you want to start with that? Hoping you could hear me?

Mike:

I guess we've lost her.

Blair:

Yeah, probably.

Martin:

She's online, but I don't see any wavelength, so we.

Mike:

I'll go ahead and answer that yes to everything we had.

Mike:

We did scour the archives, but there are about 150 images in the book, and just 30 of them

Mike:

are from her own collection of photos that she either brought with her from Russia or were

Mike:

sent to her by her family.

Mike:

So 20% of the.

Mike:

Of the total.

Mike:

And the rest are.

Mike:

Are either images that we took of archives, items, took people in LA or in Russia or New

Mike:

York, of the buildings, the houses that she lived in.

Mike:

So there's a big variety.

Mike:

I can't tell you how distinct from the

Mike:

archives, but probably well over half.

Mike:

But the vintage photos are ones that of her

Mike:

family, particularly once that she brought with her from Russia when she got out in 1926.

Blair:

Yes. Okay. Okay. Now, who are or what was the Kerensky revolution in 1917?

Blair:

How old was she then? I think she was, what, twelve, maybe?

Mike:

She was.

Mike:

Well, yeah.

Mike:

And at that time, Kerensky was Alexander Kerensky, and he was the head of a provisional

Mike:

government that lasted a few months before the Bolshevik October Revolution took over and

Mike:

chased him out of the country.

Mike:

He was the last hope for any sort of sanity in

Mike:

Russia.

Mike:

It was the revolution that she watched, the

Mike:

fighting that she watched in 1926, in February, that was the.

Mike:

Known as the February Revolution or the Kerensky Revolution.

Mike:

And it was anti czarist.

Mike:

There was a combination of different groups

Mike:

for different places on this political spectrum fighting against the tsar, and it

Mike:

took place only in St. Petersburg.

Mike:

It was not a nationwide revolution that far.

Mike:

And the tsar abdicated.

Mike:

And Kerensky.

Mike:

Korensky was her big hero, but she was that age.

Mike:

He thought, you know, he was the.

Mike:

He was the hope for Russia, and he was a

Mike:

dashing figure, and he turned out to be a real loser, which she recognized pretty early on,

Mike:

maybe not at age twelve, but later.

Mike:

That compromiser didn't really have any solid

Mike:

ideas.

Mike:

He loved mother Russia, and she met him

Mike:

actually, in the 1940s at a party when she was in New York.

Mike:

And I think he turned out to be even worse than she thought he was.

Mike:

So she blames him.

Mike:

This is in her biographical interviews.

Mike:

She blames him for not being what he could have been.

Mike:

And he actually thinks that he could have prevented the Soviets from, I mean, the

Mike:

Bolsheviks from thinking over, because he was so beloved that Russia had to fight.

Mike:

And they do this often.

Mike:

So I see, I see.

Blair:

Now, what's, one of the things that I was really surprised at in your book,

Blair:

Washington, when her family vacationed in France in 1914.

Blair:

Of course, World War one was underway, I guess, and apparently, the way you have it in

Blair:

the book, the ocean liner before hers and the one after hers were sunk, but she was

Blair:

apparently, obviously lucky to be alive after the bombing of the shipping lanes.

Mike:

So that's.

Mike:

Yeah. You know, when you put that into

Mike:

perspective, think of all the things that could have happened.

Mike:

Yes.

Mike:

Not just the bombings, but they were attacked

Mike:

by bandits in the Crimea, all sorts of things that could have ended her life in a second.

Mike:

And I think, God, where would I be? That didn't happen.

Mike:

There would have been no objectivism, though.

Mike:

You know, it's.

Mike:

But that's.

Mike:

I think you named that, that's the scariest

Mike:

thing that, going through, I guess, that the North Sea and the U boats.

Blair:

So what does that mean? Fortunate.

Blair:

Fortunate.

Mike:

Fortunate, yeah.

Blair:

For the world.

Blair:

Yes. Now, another thing that I didn't know is

Blair:

I knew her father was a pharmacist and that he had bought an apartment building in 1916,

Blair:

apparently where they came back from.

Blair:

The Karami, I believe.

Mike:

Right.

Blair:

And then that's where she finally gets to America, from that apartment building.

Blair:

But can you.

Blair:

Before we get to that, can you.

Blair:

Her school years, can you describe her school years for me?

Mike:

Well, uh, we know something.

Mike:

She talks about that in her, in biographical

Mike:

interviews, the classes that she liked that she didn't do well in.

Mike:

She said she was particularly bad at anything that, that was more physical.

Mike:

Like there was an art class that she didn't like, sewing she was totally inept at, but in

Mike:

the more academic subjects, she did really well and way beyond her peers.

Mike:

And her favorite subject was math.

Mike:

Mathematics.

Mike:

I don't know what they called it over there at the time, to the extent which her, and was so

Mike:

good at it that her, her math teacher told her that if she didn't make a career of math, that

Mike:

would be a prime.

Mike:

But I wonder if you can guess why she didn't

Mike:

go into math.

Mike:

I won't put you on the spot.

Mike:

So I'll tell you, not connected enough to the real world.

Mike:

Oh, my.

Mike:

Theoretical math.

Mike:

It was because she was always on the premise of living on earth, and she thought that

Mike:

theoretical math was just too abstract.

Mike:

And as much as she loved just.

Mike:

She loved the psycho epistemology of it, or the epistemology of it, and.

Mike:

But as far as doing anything with it, it was amazing.

Mike:

My own words, more of it, almost an in itself, so.

Mike:

And then later she.

Mike:

Under the Soviets, when she went to college,

Mike:

she had to keep quiet about the important things, except for Aristotle.

Mike:

She was very outspoken, but anything that bordered on political, as she said, if she'd

Mike:

spoken out, she would have been dead within a year.

Blair:

Yeah, I was just about to come to that quote in the book, too.

Mike:

Yeah, I knew you liked school.

Mike:

Basically, she liked learning, but she found

Mike:

most of it boring and I guess too rationalistic in our terms, as lecturing.

Mike:

Lecturing to little kids.

Mike:

So she didn't like that aspect of it.

Mike:

But she.

Mike:

The subjects that she liked, philosophy and

Mike:

math earlier, math she loved.

Mike:

And Washington was a standout student, but.

Blair:

I don't think it was nice not to interrupt you, Mike, but I thought her.

Blair:

Well, I don't know if it was her favorite, but she majored in history, correct?

Blair:

Or.

Mike:

Yeah, she did.

Mike:

In college.

Blair:

Okay. Okay.

Mike:

Yeah. So the math was really high school, which is particularly.

Mike:

I don't know if she took that.

Mike:

And we do have her, you know, we have her

Mike:

transcripts and records, grade reports, all kinds of.

Mike:

Much of which was found for us by objectivists or objectivist sympathizers in Russia.

Mike:

They got into the official papers, I guess the Freedom of Information Act.

Mike:

I don't know, after the Soviets fell.

Blair:

Right.

Blair:

Okay.

Mike:

Obviously.

Mike:

And so we have a lot of that information.

Mike:

I just can't remember if she took any higher math.

Mike:

I don't know.

Mike:

She was studying later.

Mike:

She was taking private math tutorial much later in her life.

Mike:

So she obviously, she kept up her love of it and what it indicated epistemologically and

Mike:

what you could do with it, but.

Mike:

Yeah, you know, she was an industry.

Blair:

Major, and I wonder if those math notes will ever be released someday.

Mike:

Never seen it.

Mike:

Oh, I don't think.

Mike:

Yeah, I think if they existed, we would have seen them by now.

Mike:

Yeah.

Mike:

Don't get me off onto the things that we don't

Mike:

have.

Mike:

I don't mind her early scenarios, which I

Mike:

don't know where they are that she brought with it from Russia.

Blair:

I remember Doctor Peacock saying that there's a box or two missing of her, all of

Blair:

her possessions.

Blair:

So I wonder what happened to that.

Blair:

But that's for another story.

Blair:

I know that obviously, we, the living.

Blair:

She must have used a lot of those locations and statues and things.

Blair:

And Anu, do you have any idea about those or.

Mike:

No, not really.

Mike:

I mean, she did.

Mike:

She used those.

Mike:

She used the people, too.

Mike:

There's a. I think in the Robert Mayhew anthology, there is a chapter.

Mike:

I think it's Scott McConnell who did the hundred voices, oral history, did a chapter on

Mike:

the connection of people she knew in Russia, family members, like, connection of them to

Mike:

characters in we the living, which is a fascinating chapter, if you get a chance to

Mike:

look at that.

Mike:

As she said, it's the closest she ever came or

Mike:

would come to an autobiography.

Mike:

That it was Kira was not the specifics, but

Mike:

Kira's sense of life approached the world.

Blair:

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Blair:

I want to read a quote.

Blair:

You sort of touched on it earlier, but I'd like to read it from your book.

Blair:

This is on page 27, en route to America.

Blair:

Let's see here.

Blair:

Where do I want to start? Ayn Rand was finally leaving the country that

Blair:

even as a youngster, she considered, quote, just an accidental sort of cesspool of

Blair:

civilization.

Blair:

I had a feeling because of being in Russia,

Blair:

that I am simply among the wrong people and in the wrong environment, and that whichever I

Blair:

see here is not representative of mankind, end quote.

Blair:

And then she goes on to say, people told her at her going away party, when you get out,

Blair:

tell the rest of the world that we are dying here, unquote.

Blair:

Had she remained in Russia and written as an individualist, she recalled, she herself,

Blair:

quote, would have been dead within a year, unquote.

Blair:

But in America, she would tell the world.

Blair:

Yeah, that's, uh.

Mike:

That's.

Blair:

That's profound in my mind.

Mike:

So, yeah.

Mike:

That I love.

Mike:

That's one of my all time favorite quotes.

Mike:

And although it wasn't by her, tell the world

Mike:

we were dying here.

Blair:

Right, right.

Blair:

Yeah.

Mike:

And if.

Mike:

I don't know if you caught when that going

Mike:

away party was January 6.

Blair:

Well, 17th, says here.

Mike:

Yeah. The party was the night of January 16.

Blair:

Yes. Okay.

Mike:

Right.

Blair:

Thank you.

Blair:

Yes.

Mike:

And I don't know whether that's it.

Mike:

Obviously, it's the sports of that, the use of

Mike:

that in the play, but I noticed that a few years ago.

Mike:

It seems rather coincidental, but, yeah, I mean, that's.

Blair:

Well, you know, that's.

Blair:

I mean, she does that because she started

Blair:

writing at Le Shrug on September 2.

Blair:

And that, of course, is prominent through the

Blair:

novel.

Mike:

Right. But, uh.

Mike:

Well, it could have been, but, yeah.

Mike:

That.

Mike:

That quote, uh, from the guest party is

Mike:

really.

Mike:

Oh. Because it was not metaphorical.

Mike:

It was actually.

Mike:

We are all dying here.

Blair:

Yes, true.

Mike:

And they did.

Mike:

So, um.

Mike:

But, uh, that she got out and all that.

Mike:

I don't know if you've.

Mike:

I don't know if that story has been in print, that she was in Riga, Latvia, I think, and had

Mike:

been denied a visa to get out.

Mike:

And she noticed on the desk of the.

Mike:

Of the official that she was talking to, she read it upside down and.

Mike:

And I think, recognized that there was some mistake, that he was.

Mike:

I wish I could remember the detail.

Mike:

Talking to the wrong person or something.

Mike:

And she corrected it and then got her visa and that.

Mike:

Another chance encounter.

Blair:

Yes, exactly.

Mike:

Yes.

Blair:

I wanted.

Blair:

Is Anu still with us, Orlando?

Anu:

I am, but you apparently can't hear me.

Blair:

Yes, we do.

Blair:

We're just.

Blair:

I did try to reach out to you a moment ago.

Blair:

Do you.

Blair:

In the book, she has a specific emotion upon arriving in America.

Blair:

Can you describe that or.

Anu:

I think so.

Anu:

I know that she didn't put in these words, but

Anu:

she must have been somewhat emotional for having reached the goal of her.

Anu:

Her travel to America.

Anu:

When seeing the skyline of New York, which,

Anu:

since you read the book, you know how important the New York skyline was for her.

Anu:

And that was the first time she saw it in person after having seen it in many movies and

Anu:

books.

Anu:

So I think there was a kind of crystallized

Anu:

vision of what her future will be where she is now in America.

Anu:

So that's my interpretation of it, yes.

Blair:

Yeah.

Mike:

She does comment, I think, in the biographical interviews about missing seeing

Mike:

the Statue of Liberty as the boat came in.

Mike:

The ship came in, and that was really crushing

Mike:

to her because that was so much in her mind as the coming to America that she's gotten here.

Mike:

And I can't remember why.

Mike:

Was it in the dark or is raining or something?

Mike:

And she was the downer of getting to America, but.

Blair:

Okay, well, she stayed in New York for a while, then she went to Chicago to stay with

Blair:

relatives, if I'm not mistaken.

Blair:

And there's another quote I want to read from

Blair:

some of her family members.

Blair:

It's quote, we had two little cots in the

Blair:

dining room, and we had to move out because Ayn Rand had her typewriter in the dining room

Blair:

where we slept.

Blair:

She was just a cousin who came to America and

Blair:

could hardly speak English.

Blair:

We didn't know she was going to be a great

Blair:

writer with great ideas.

Blair:

She was just another one of the, quote,

Blair:

greenhorns that grandpa and the uncles and aunts brought in.

Blair:

But we wanted everyone to live in the land of milk and honey, unquote.

Blair:

There's some nice, nice relatives anyhow.

Blair:

But again, these photos are phenomenal.

Blair:

Fantastic.

Blair:

Now, going to Los Angeles, the Richard Nutra

Blair:

house.

Mike:

Nitra.

Blair:

Yeah, nitra or nutra.

Mike:

Blair, I was not getting audio for a while.

Mike:

I don't know if you were on it, but I. But I might have missed.

Blair:

Oh, I pulled back from the mic.

Blair:

Maybe that's my fault there then.

Anu:

Yeah, I've been getting everything, I think.

Blair:

All right, I can read that quote again, Martin, if you want me to.

Martin:

Yes, please.

Blair:

All right.

Blair:

From one of her cousins in Chicago.

Mike:

Yeah, I heard that.

Blair:

Okay.

Mike:

Yeah.

Blair:

She was just a cousin who came to America and could hardly speak English.

Blair:

We didn't know she was going to be a great writer with great ideas.

Blair:

She was just another one of the greenhorns that grandpa and the uncles and aunts brought

Blair:

in.

Blair:

We wanted everyone to live in the land of milk

Blair:

and honey, unquote.

Blair:

That was her cousin.

Mike:

Right.

Blair:

Now, sadly, this neutra nitra house was torn down.

Mike:

Oh, yeah.

Mike:

I'd actually, Harry Binswater and I went to

Mike:

that house.

Mike:

We didn't get in, but it was just a few blocks

Mike:

away from where I was teaching.

Mike:

It moved to LA in 1970, and I was teaching at

Mike:

what's now California State University in Northridge.

Mike:

And that, that house, the neutra house, was an iconic house.

Mike:

And the official neutra volume and books has that as the COVID photo.

Mike:

And it got, you know, and we, Harry and I went there and got chased off the property by

Mike:

whoever was running it at the time.

Mike:

We didn't.

Mike:

And that was before he'd gotten to know her.

Mike:

So he couldn't say, I'm a friend of mine,

Mike:

ransom.

Mike:

So we meekly left it and within a few months,

Mike:

it was gone.

Mike:

And I met and talked to Richard Nitra's son,

Mike:

Dione, a couple years later.

Mike:

He told me that the money to save it had

Mike:

actually been raised.

Mike:

And the people that were having it torn down

Mike:

didn't know that.

Mike:

And destruction went on.

Mike:

And he was more awfully.

Mike:

There's a video online showing the destruction

Mike:

of the house.

Mike:

It was an architectural crime.

Mike:

No, not a real crime.

Martin:

Yeah. Mike, you have a note in end of the book, of course, that you should respect

Martin:

the property rights.

Martin:

And because your book that you have worked

Martin:

here, Mike, in honor and with all the helps with photos and how many of these locations,

Martin:

sites and homes and places could you visit today?

Martin:

Of course, respecting property rights if it's a private home or whatnot.

Martin:

But you said in the green room that you and Anna have been having, like, tour guide

Martin:

guiding.

Mike:

Yeah, I think the number of places you can get into now is probably zero.

Martin:

Okay.

Mike:

I don't know what you've been in on it.

Mike:

Did you take the tour where we went into the

Mike:

Hollywood studio club?

Anu:

I did.

Anu:

Oh, that was the Ari staff tour that you.

Mike:

All right, right.

Anu:

You and Jeff. Did I? Yeah.

Anu:

So I've been there.

Anu:

But, you know, for instance, a lot of the

Anu:

photos are from the facades, from the outsides of the houses, so those you can still see

Anu:

almost all the buildings in New York.

Anu:

I've actually taken the photos, and they are

Anu:

still there, and I never went inside.

Anu:

I don't think in most cases we even knew which

Anu:

apartment it would have been okay.

Mike:

But. But continuing with that, we are fortunate.

Mike:

All this started back, I think, in the 1990s for me, long before we had the idea for a

Mike:

book.

Mike:

But for some reason, we had all of the russian

Mike:

letters, all the 900 letters from our family in Russian.

Mike:

We had them at our house.

Mike:

I can't remember why it.

Mike:

And I shudder to think on something that valuable.

Mike:

And sitting around the house when we had it.

Mike:

And my play wife Judy, who was a big champion

Mike:

of the russian lawyers, I think it might have some.

Mike:

She paid that and translated.

Mike:

So we were very interested in that.

Mike:

And part of it, we realized that we could find out where she lived by looking at the

Mike:

forwarding addresses on the envelopes.

Mike:

They were basically sent from her family to

Mike:

the relatives in Chicago and forwarded to Ayn Rand, wherever she was living then.

Mike:

So we put together a chronology, and we started driving around LA to see where she

Mike:

lived at that point, nobody knew basically where she lived in LA.

Mike:

And very fortunate.

Mike:

We actually got into a couple of the

Mike:

apartments by chance.

Mike:

Somebody was moving, and they said, we said,

Mike:

can we come in? Sure, come on in.

Mike:

It wasn't very exciting, but just the idea that we'd gotten into the exact apartments

Mike:

that she'd lived in.

Mike:

But now I don't even know what's going on at

Mike:

the studio club, which is a historical site, so you could probably get into the lobby.

Mike:

And the last time I was there, they no longer had the display case where they feature her

Mike:

letter to the studio club, lauding it for what it did for the young women who come the

Mike:

Hollywood.

Mike:

So that's about as far as you could get

Mike:

anywhere.

Mike:

The rest of them were just boons are locked up

Mike:

tight because these days, with the increased crime, you can't get into the front door of

Mike:

these buildings at all.

Blair:

Again, I think the studio club itself, was that privately funded back then, I mean.

Mike:

Yes. YMCA.

Blair:

Okay, that.

Blair:

Yeah, there you go.

Blair:

Okay.

Mike:

Yeah. Or maybe it was a YWC w. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike:

And DeMille's wife, I think.

Mike:

Wasn't she the, uh.

Mike:

Uh, the.

Mike:

The.

Mike:

I mean, the finance, uh, behind it, on it? You remember what the.

Anu:

I don't remember that.

Anu:

Um.

Mike:

Mill's wife.

Mike:

I don't remember what it was, but.

Blair:

That'S not in the book anyway.

Mike:

Yeah.

Blair:

Go ahead.

Anu:

I can mention about one place where if it went in St. Petersburg, Russia, you could

Anu:

probably get into.

Anu:

It's the 120 Nevsky prospect address where Ayn

Anu:

Rand lived as a young girl with her family.

Anu:

Several years before Russia attacked Ukraine.

Anu:

It was converted to a private boutique hotel.

Anu:

And there's a guy who was helping us obtain

Anu:

many photos and who went to the national archives in St. Petersburg when they became

Anu:

open after Covid, he went there and he sent us pictures.

Anu:

But sadly, it's out of pounds for anyone with any kind of a conscience nowadays.

Anu:

But it did look really nice, and it used a lot of the space.

Anu:

Apparently that had been Irene's fathers mother's apartment.

Mike:

Is that the one under.

Mike:

They for a while had a plaque on outside?

Anu:

Yeah, that's the one.

Anu:

And then they apparently had to take it off

Anu:

because there wasn't a permit for it or something like that.

Anu:

Typical.

Blair:

Yes. Typical bureaucracy.

Blair:

I'm actually surprised some of these buildings

Blair:

in Russia are still standing, but I don't think Russia has ever really been invaded, so

Blair:

to speak.

Anu:

No. And St. Petersburg is a beautiful city.

Anu:

I took a lot of those pictures in 2004 and five when I did a couple of trips there.

Blair:

You can see the modern cars in front of these buildings.

Anu:

But if it's really modern cars, then it's Mikhail Kratzov, our friend in St. Petersburg,

Anu:

who's taken that.

Anu:

But if they look like they're 20 year old

Anu:

cars, then that's mine.

Mike:

It wasn't.

Mike:

It was under siege in, what, 3940.

Blair:

Oh, I see.

Anu:

Yeah. For a long time, around 1000 days.

Mike:

And her sister got killed.

Mike:

Right.

Blair:

Gosh.

Anu:

Yeah. In a bombing.

Mike:

Bombing rate, yeah.

Mike:

But. Right.

Blair:

Yeah.

Mike:

Otherwise, I don't know.

Mike:

Did you guess you didn't see any ruins in St.

Mike:

Petersburg?

Anu:

No, I didn't see any ruins.

Anu:

I don't remember it really being damaged, that

Anu:

it would have been.

Anu:

A lot of these buildings are much older than

Anu:

second world war, so at least I didn't see any in the nineties or early two thousands.

Blair:

Okay, okay.

Blair:

What about now?

Blair:

A lot of, almost everyone knows about her meeting with Cecil B. DeMille and running into

Blair:

him, so to speak.

Blair:

What about.

Blair:

Is it your Ray? Colorado?

Mike:

Your ray who?

Blair:

Anno, did you take that photo or.

Blair:

No?

Anu:

No, I didn't.

Anu:

We found the photo in a collection in the

Anu:

Eindran archives, Mike.

Anu:

Do I remember that correctly?

Anu:

And then we did quite a bit of detective work to find out who owns the photo and who took

Anu:

it.

Anu:

And then we wrote to him and he was delighted

Anu:

to give us the right to use it in the book.

Anu:

And we sent him a copy of the book.

Anu:

So hopefully he's enjoying it.

Mike:

I have a funny story how I came across that when I was teaching, as customary, when

Mike:

faculty members go on vacation, they'll send a postcard back to the department or department

Mike:

secretary and we'll put it up on the bulletin board.

Mike:

And I was in the department office one day and this must have been, I don't know, 19 71, 72,

Mike:

something like that.

Mike:

And I see this exact postcard, I think, right?

Mike:

And I know where it was.

Mike:

Never heard of you.

Mike:

Right.

Mike:

But Jesus, all that needs is a rate screen.

Mike:

That could be golf skulks.

Mike:

And I mentioned that to a friend of mine, Alan

Mike:

Gottvel, who knew I ran and he said, guess what it was.

Mike:

I had no idea.

Mike:

And then after we got the archive material, 20

Mike:

years later, I found the maps and everything related to Yuretzenhe.

Mike:

So it was.

Mike:

Now I have to say that when you're.

Mike:

We went to vacations.

Mike:

You're right.

Mike:

You don't experience what you see in that picture, which is obviously from the air.

Mike:

Yes.

Mike:

So it's.

Mike:

You don't get, when you're in the town, you don't get the feeling that you're surrounded

Mike:

by these huge mountains.

Mike:

But that photo is so adult skull.

Blair:

Yes, I agree.

Blair:

I agree.

Blair:

I'm looking at it right now.

Blair:

It's.

Blair:

That's certainly a valley, you know, and you can, you can picture the, you know, the homes

Blair:

of the, the heroes and protagonists.

Mike:

And they certainly love.

Mike:

She and Frank certainly love that place there.

Mike:

Twice.

Martin:

I have, I have a note there talking about podcasting and podcasting 2.0.

Martin:

If the listeners, and if we have permission with that photo, as you got permission, it had

Martin:

been possible to then show it as a chapter that the listener could say, okay, we are

Martin:

talking about this.

Martin:

And then they could see it on their phone or

Martin:

on the web.

Martin:

And then you could give credits to the person

Martin:

who took the photo and if they would be like, adding to what you have done, Arno registered

Martin:

on true fans, then the person could get something for that, like a donation.

Martin:

So this is amazing how we're talking on audio, but then your imagination.

Martin:

And also, if you looked at the book and have been at Colorado, you get the picture.

Martin:

And if you listen to, and you could add that into the audio, like on a new modern podcast

Martin:

app, you could really see it.

Martin:

So this is fascinating, and thanks again to,

Martin:

you know, the market and developers and inventors and applications.

Martin:

That was something that struck my mind.

Martin:

Now, when we're talking about this nice

Martin:

feature.

Martin:

Yeah, yeah.

Blair:

Okay. What was, quote, the residence that never was, unquote.

Mike:

I knew.

Mike:

I take that one.

Anu:

Yeah, sure.

Anu:

Ayn Rand loved Frank Lloyd Wright's work, even

Anu:

though not the character of the person itself.

Anu:

And you may be familiar with the story of how

Anu:

she had written to Frank Lloyd Wright a couple of times when she was writing the fountainhead

Anu:

asking for a meeting and never heard back.

Anu:

And then when the book came out, Frank Lloyd

Anu:

Wright did acknowledge that and thought it was about him and all kinds of funny incidents,

Anu:

but they ended up meeting.

Anu:

And apparently Frank Lloyd Wright was so

Anu:

impressed by Ayndrand that he agreed to do a drawing, a design for a house for her without

Anu:

knowing what would be the house's location, which apparently was typically a no no for

Anu:

him.

Anu:

And he did that.

Anu:

But unfortunately, that was the time when Ayn Rand decided that she would rather live in the

Anu:

city.

Anu:

And this house was designed to be built

Anu:

somewhere, I think, you know, maybe close by where one of you lives, you know, in

Anu:

Connecticut, close by the ocean.

Anu:

But she went back to New York City, and the

Anu:

house was never built.

Anu:

There is a beautiful design in the Frank Lloyd

Anu:

Wright foundation archives, and unfortunately, they didn't allow us to reprint it in the

Anu:

book, but anyone who wants to find it can fairly easily find it on the Internet or in

Anu:

the archives.

Anu:

It's a beautiful building, somewhat

Anu:

reminiscent of falling water.

Blair:

Yes, it's striking.

Blair:

It's very striking.

Blair:

Yes, very striking.

Blair:

Now, one of the things I was kind of

Blair:

fascinated by, in a way, she, apparently they moved around quite a bit in New York City

Blair:

itself.

Blair:

I mean, they had, what, six or eight

Blair:

residences, and then obviously the building or the rooms for the objectivist and the Ayn Rand

Blair:

letter and so on.

Blair:

But she had a lot.

Blair:

They moved around quite a bit.

Blair:

Was there a reason for that?

Anu:

Or if you look at the times when they moved around a lot, that was earlier, they

Anu:

were still fairly young, and it seems to be that they were moving every year, every 11th

Anu:

month.

Anu:

So I suppose that they made a year's lease and

Anu:

then got a better price or a better place somewhere else.

Anu:

But if you look at the two last places where they lived until Eindran's death, they are

Anu:

pretty long term.

Mike:

That's true.

Blair:

That's true.

Mike:

Yeah. Places in 31 years.

Mike:

32 years.

Mike:

Yeah.

Blair:

The. So what was.

Blair:

What was meant by the perfect 36 in one of her

Blair:

residences?

Mike:

That was an old phrase for a woman with a perfect figure.

Blair:

Her man.

Anu:

Okay. I have to tell you that when I got this question yesterday from you, a blair, I

Anu:

started looking at it and Google wouldn't even tell this meaning anymore.

Anu:

And I thought that was pretty sure.

Anu:

Yeah, I think so.

Anu:

It's apparently a perfect score on SAt.

Anu:

It's this and that, but nothing about the

Anu:

woman's measurements.

Anu:

I thought that was quite funny.

Martin:

It is, but we are for the freedom of expression, and this is not explicit, so to

Martin:

speak.

Martin:

But the lead to this is like, it's in the

Martin:

address.

Martin:

Right.

Martin:

It's the street number and 36 east.

Anu:

And the apartment.

Anu:

Yes, yes.

Mike:

I don't know what the waste.

Mike:

They should be.

Blair:

24.

Mike:

24. Is that 36? 24 36.

Blair:

That is it.

Blair:

Yes.

Mike:

Yes. That was a.

Blair:

So that's.

Blair:

That's.

Blair:

That's funny.

Blair:

And cute.

Mike:

And funny.

Blair:

Yeah. Now, obviously, there's the famous photo of them on top of the Empire

Blair:

State Building.

Blair:

That's one of their trips back to New York

Blair:

from Los Angeles.

Mike:

That was the.

Mike:

Not the Empire State.

Mike:

That was Rockefeller center.

Blair:

Sorry. Yes, Rockefeller center.

Mike:

Oh, yeah.

Mike:

Great picture.

Blair:

Yes.

Mike:

Yeah.

Martin:

They look very happy, and they look into the camera and hold on to their hats.

Martin:

Yeah.

Blair:

But again, so this must have been a real labor of love to put this book together.

Anu:

It was.

Anu:

We had a lot of fun.

Anu:

I have to say that Mike is the best person ever to work with.

Anu:

He's prompt and he's capable, he writes well, he's funny.

Mike:

If this sort of video, my face would be red.

Anu:

But it has to be because you are great to work with.

Martin:

And I know that.

Martin:

I have to say that.

Martin:

And we will get you on video, both of you, and do something, because, of course, this is a

Martin:

show and tell.

Martin:

People have to use the immunization and get

Martin:

the book.

Martin:

Also, I read it in Kindle and Blair in the

Martin:

paperback, but I could see opportunities in different media with this.

Martin:

It's like, as I said, a photo album.

Martin:

It's a gallery, it's a tour guide.

Martin:

It's so neat and nice in every way.

Martin:

So great work in doing this, Mike.

Mike:

Yeah. We're really lucky that, that Ayn Rand was a saver.

Mike:

And Blair asked earlier about how many photos were from her collection.

Mike:

Only 30.

Mike:

But a lot of the other photos were things that

Mike:

she kept and we would know nothing about if she hadn't kept them.

Mike:

And it makes her journey so much more alive to have her and the luggage receipt from her trip

Mike:

to America on the de Grasse.

Mike:

She kept that.

Martin:

Could that be something? Now, maybe it's far fetched, but, you know,

Martin:

one of my favorite essays is on the value of having stamp collecting as a hobby.

Martin:

And she written about stamps, how to collect stamps.

Martin:

And also you learn things and you get inspired.

Martin:

So it was fascinating when it was this stamp of rand.

Martin:

And also the first letter, you know how to say in Swedish, you call it first day letter, but

Martin:

you get it like this date on it.

Martin:

And I could see that in the, in the book,

Martin:

it's, it's lots of that nostalgic thing.

Mike:

So, yeah, you know, I have to say this.

Mike:

Nothing, not this book in particular, but

Mike:

what, what it's full of and what it led to had a big effect on me personally.

Mike:

I've always, being in academia, had a more academic approach to things, and I was

Mike:

interested in her ideas.

Mike:

Lastly, I'm interested would be an

Mike:

understatement, but nothing, not particularly in her as a person.

Mike:

And it was just, you know, I'm caught up in the world of ideas at the university and all

Mike:

that.

Mike:

And then in the mid nineties, I had to do a

Mike:

little research of the cartons of her material that Doctor Beacov had down in Orange county.

Mike:

And in the course of which I, I saw some things I'd never seen before.

Mike:

And I thought, you know, people are going to start using this stuff.

Mike:

We ought to know what's in there.

Mike:

So I volunteered.

Mike:

He actually paid me a dollar, the inventory, all that material, this should be pretty

Mike:

interesting.

Mike:

And so I started bringing three, four, five

Mike:

cartons up from Orange county to where I live.

Mike:

And it's about an hour away where I lived,

Mike:

north of where all this material was in a warehouse.

Mike:

And I put it out on the floor of the living room.

Mike:

And I would reach my hand into a box and just grab hold of something and pull it out.

Mike:

And one of the first things I pulled out was her passport.

Mike:

God, this Iran's passport.

Mike:

If it hadn't been for this, there would have

Mike:

been no objectivism.

Mike:

And that concretized what she had gone through

Mike:

and accomplished.

Mike:

And it was just increased, increased with all

Mike:

the other materials I saw.

Mike:

And that was when I got interested in her

Mike:

life.

Mike:

And that's, I think I mentioned in the intro

Mike:

to this book, the tagline from Ayn Ray said, to life, more compelling than fiction.

Mike:

And that had, you know, this is a compromisation of that whole thing.

Mike:

And then I got super interested in the archives and finding out more and connecting

Mike:

this piece of material to something else.

Mike:

That whole process was not just enjoyable, but

Mike:

gave me a whole different outlook on Ayn Rand as a person.

Mike:

I met her a number of times, but I can't say I knew her.

Mike:

We weren't, not enough to be friends, but that it was a real eye opener and a mind opener.

Mike:

When I saw her, like, concretized and all these things, I reminded of it before.

Mike:

And we were talking about that photo from the Rockefeller center, and she kept the receipt

Mike:

from that photo, and she didn't keep things just to keep them.

Mike:

She wasn't a hoarder in that sense, but she kept tons of stuff that were meaningful to

Mike:

her, like hundreds of notes between her and Frank.

Mike:

They would leave in the morning to call, order the groceries, and I don't remember many the

Mike:

details, but it's a life, and it's concretized that way.

Mike:

I'm really grateful that she kept so.

Martin:

Many things and like the quote that Blair was saying about the importance of a

Martin:

typewriter and did the work.

Martin:

And I like the photo when, as a cat person,

Martin:

when she is Frisco in action, where on the photo, you could sense how it was in my

Martin:

apartment and so on.

Martin:

So I have.

Martin:

If. I don't know if you don't have any other things, like regarding the book, I want to

Martin:

segue a little bit before we wrap up.

Blair:

I do have one more question, Martin, if I may.

Blair:

I just want to ask Anu, why did she love New York City so much?

Martin:

Yeah, that's a good one.

Anu:

I would venture to guess that it's a maybe the best form that human, productive

Anu:

endeavor has taken on a landscape and, you know, given a very enjoyable place to live and

Anu:

thrive for anyone who wants to be there.

Anu:

And I know skyscrapers held a special meaning

Anu:

to her.

Blair:

That's true.

Anu:

There, not having been any in the.

Anu:

In Russia or Soviet Union, I don't know, you

Anu:

know, having lived in New York City myself, there is some energy in that city that is very

Anu:

rare, if not even non existent, anywhere else.

Anu:

So I. That would be a part of it.

Mike:

It really meant America to her.

Mike:

That was.

Mike:

They were synonymous almost.

Mike:

And I. For people living in Russia at that

Mike:

time, America was like Mars.

Mike:

And it was manifested in New York City.

Mike:

What could be more better example of american freedom and productivity than New York?

Mike:

I mean, she said at one point, I think it was in the interviews for biographical, that she

Mike:

was in this slightly a paraphrase.

Mike:

I don't remember it exactly.

Mike:

She was talking to Frank, said, I was in love with New York.

Mike:

Not just I loved it, but I was in love with it.

Mike:

And Frank said to me, it's the New York that you made up in your own mind.

Mike:

And she said, that's true.

Anu:

I think we have that in the book, Mike.

Mike:

Do we?

Blair:

I think it is.

Mike:

Yes, I read it.

Mike:

And, and that's quoting from.

Anu:

You're quoting almost yourself.

Anu:

Yeah.

Mike:

Is that in the skyscraper?

Martin:

Yeah.

Blair:

Yes, I think that's what I'm just looking.

Anu:

I can't see it right there.

Anu:

But I.

Mike:

Hold on.

Blair:

Let's see if I can.

Martin:

But I read it in.

Anu:

Oh, maybe it's in.

Anu:

We have a couple of skyline.

Mike:

So America became the world for Mars.

Mike:

Yeah, that's there.

Martin:

And this, I must say on a personal, this will give me strength and fuel and

Martin:

support to visit New York City again because I haven't been there since the tragic and the

Martin:

terror attack and so on.

Martin:

So I was.

Anu:

Yeah, yeah, do go.

Anu:

It lives on.

Martin:

Yeah. Good. Good to hear.

Martin:

So. So, Mike, I was, and that could be for

Martin:

another episode.

Martin:

You wrote an article, a piece on we were

Martin:

living and music.

Martin:

Do you want to, could you connect that somehow

Martin:

with this book? And also, Rance had future plans of music and

Martin:

tiddlywing music and some work of art.

Mike:

No connection pops into my mind, though.

Mike:

I think she pretty much will.

Mike:

Stylish.

Mike:

I think she lived in New York at the same time

Mike:

as her then favorite composer, Emmerich Kalman, and didn't know it.

Mike:

And I, of course, never got to meet him.

Mike:

But, no, I mean, maybe there is, but I'm not

Mike:

seeing it, Martin.

Mike:

Sorry.

Martin:

No, that's okay.

Martin:

But I thought it was very interesting piece

Martin:

about the music and we were living, and also, as we talked about all the statues and

Martin:

landmarks and it's fascinating to learn more about her life and her career and everything.

Martin:

So. And thanks again for your hard work.

Martin:

And do you have any things going on or

Martin:

something that you want to mention or something?

Martin:

Again, you have to plug the book, of course, and where the listener could get it and.

Martin:

Yeah.

Martin:

Reach out to you and so on.

Anu:

Yeah, the book is available on Amazon, both on Kindle evision and a print edition.

Anu:

But like Martin mentioned earlier, it is not easy to read it on Kindle.

Anu:

It's hard to make the font any bigger.

Anu:

And I bet the photos are blurry.

Anu:

So do get it in print.

Anu:

And it's pretty inexpensive and comes to you

Anu:

quickly, at least if you're in the US.

Anu:

Which reminds me, Martin, if you need any help

Anu:

getting it to Sweden, let me know.

Martin:

Yeah, I will talk to you.

Martin:

You know how it is in Scandinavia.

Anu:

I do know that.

Martin:

Nordic countries.

Blair:

Anu, are you over in Europe or where are you, if I may?

Anu:

No, I'm in.

Anu:

I'm in southern California, too.

Anu:

I'm in Orange county, just about an hour south from Mike.

Blair:

Yeah, I know you worked at the Institute for many years, and I did see a

Blair:

blurb some time ago where you had retired.

Anu:

Right? Yes. I've been enjoying only life for about

Anu:

two years now.

Anu:

It has been quite, quite nice.

Blair:

I'm glad.

Blair:

Michael, let me.

Blair:

On the back cover, you mentioned you there.

Blair:

It mentions that you wrote recent biographies

Blair:

of Emerick Kalman and Jacques Offenbach.

Mike:

Edited, not wrote.

Blair:

Okay. I haven't been able to find those.

Blair:

Are they available there?

Mike:

Yes, they are.

Mike:

They're on.

Mike:

They're on Amazon.

Mike:

Uh, the biography of Emerick almond is called

Mike:

laughter under tears.

Blair:

Ah, okay.

Mike:

And the author is.

Mike:

Last name is Fry Frey.

Mike:

And the other, more recent is a memoir that Kalman himself wrote in 1940 and telling

Mike:

stories about his growing up and becoming an imposer and the like.

Mike:

And that's that title.

Mike:

That is the unadulterated truth.

Mike:

I'm not sure that's an accurate title, but you call it the unadulterated truth.

Mike:

And he's the named author of that.

Mike:

But they're on kind.

Mike:

I don't know if they're on Kindle, actually, but they're certainly on Amazon.

Mike:

But I don't want to leave without saying not only was this book probably the most enjoyable

Mike:

book that I ever worked on at Ari, but working with Anu, I don't think we had any

Mike:

disagreements.

Mike:

To me, Anu, which is pretty surprising.

Mike:

It was pure joy to do this.

Anu:

Yeah, I don't think we had.

Anu:

And you, given that we really put down.

Anu:

Put ourselves down to work shortly after Covid began and we were stranded at our homes.

Anu:

It was really a glimpse of another life and something positive coming on that was quite

Anu:

wonderful.

Mike:

Of course, it took about 1517 years to get it done.

Anu:

That's right.

Anu:

But maybe without Covid, we couldn't have done

Anu:

it.

Mike:

It's possible.

Anu:

Yeah. No, thank you guys, for wanting to interview us.

Anu:

That was wonderful.

Blair:

Oh, it's our pleasure.

Blair:

Our pleasure.

Blair:

I want to.

Blair:

Martin, did you want to finish up?

Blair:

And I'll do that.

Martin:

I think it's all good.

Martin:

Of course, if you value this, as listeners,

Martin:

you are welcome to support us and support our guests, and we'll talk more about that in the

Martin:

future, how we could spread the good word and keep this going.

Martin:

So please wrap it up, blaire.

Blair:

All right.

Blair:

Ladies and gentlemen, today we've been talking

Blair:

to Michael Berliner and Anu Sepala, authors of Russia to America, a guide to Ayn Rand, homes

Blair:

and scents.

Blair:

Mike, Anu, thanks for manning the foxhole with

Blair:

us.

Mike:

Thanks for having us.

Anu:

Thank you.

Blair:

You're welcome.

Martin:

Thank you very much.

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode

Listen for free

Show artwork for The Secular Foxhole

About the Podcast

The Secular Foxhole
Separation of Religion and State
As a freethinker, are you looking through binoculars out at the world in the safety of a foxhole? Get fuel for your soul and intellectual ammunition by listening to The Secular Foxhole podcast, in order to fight for the separation of religion and state.

Blair chose this name (The Secular Foxhole) to dispute the myth that there are no atheists in foxholes, but also as a place to share ideas and defend Free Speech. The co-hosts both advocate the separation of Church and State, but also Economics and State. In short, Liberalism, Individualism, and Capitalism.
Support This Show

About your hosts

Blair Schofield

Profile picture for Blair Schofield
I'm a 'lapsed' blogger who turned his blog into a podcast. Now the task is to keep both up to date! My co-host Martin Lindeskog and I have already celebrated our one year anniversary, with the podcast.

Martin Lindeskog

Profile picture for Martin Lindeskog
Creator, ✍🏻 Tea Book Sketches. Indie Biz Philosopher ⚛️ & New Media 📲 Advisor, TeaParty.Media. Blogger since 2002 and podcaster🎙since 2006. First podcast: EGO NetCast. Latest podcast: High Five for Hemp. Support 💲My Work and 🗽 Freedom of Expression: https://bio.link/lyceum