Interview with Kevin Osborne

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All right, ladies and gentlemen, here we are again.

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Martin and I am back in the Fox hole.

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And today's guest is Kevin Osborne.

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Kevin comes to us with a degree in

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humanistic studies, a graduate degree in philosophy, I

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believe, from City University of New York.

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He's worked as a quality engineer in the private

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sector and worked for the Department of Defense.

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But for the last 15 years or so,

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he's been selfemployed as a writer and artist.

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And today we're going to talk mainly about

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two of his most recent books, The Prometheus

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Connection, published in 2014, United States history in

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terms of famous myth, and The Prometheus Frontier,

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published last year, which concerns visionaries for freedom

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start the world over.

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And Kevin, how are you? I'm fine.

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Tickle to be here.

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Well, great to have you.

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It's great to have you.

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Now, I thought it was really kind of

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unique to unite Promethean myth with America.

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How did you come about thinking

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about that or creating that?

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I wanted to write a nonfiction book

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as to what happened to America.

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I wanted to do a condensed history of America,

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and I struggled with it for some time.

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And by that I mean probably a year or two.

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And I needed something to make it

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not run on the bill, something different.

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And I had the idea that knowing the

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Prometheus myth, I had the idea that there

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are parallels between us history and the metaphors

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that are filled with Prometheus myth.

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And when I made that connection, all of a sudden this

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book project came alive for me, and that started it.

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And it led to the Prometheus

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Connection book published back in 2014.

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Right now, that's strictly nonfiction, as you said,

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but who are some of the characters that

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you use in the nonfiction work?

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Well, the metaphor of Zeus, the metaphor of Prometheus.

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There's the metaphor of Prometheus torch.

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There's a metaphor of chains

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and the metaphor of Heracles.

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Those five figures or objects are metaphors that

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have a very real part in American history.

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For example, Zeus is a great metaphor of authority.

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And in America, Zeus was reincarnated as in the

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form of God, especially the Christian God, and in

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the form of government, a repressive government.

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Prometheus is a great metaphor for defiance,

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the great icon of defiance throughout history.

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And the founding fathers took on one of

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the greatest powers, the greatest power at that

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time, by far England, and defied it.

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Prometheus torch is a metaphor for reason and thought.

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And our country, being a country of

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the Enlightenment, was clearly a representative of

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clearly set on fire by Prometheus torch.

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You could put it that way.

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The change that a figure is so big in

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Prometheus, the myth Prometheus being chained to a mountain

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when he stole a fire of the gods to

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give it to mankind, he was changed.

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And that metaphor of change, that change is

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a metaphor for what happened in America.

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We're changed by coercion and subjugation

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in this country today, government subjugation.

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And, of course, Heracles, this we all love, the

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figure of Heracles, who in the myth freed.

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Finally, after thousands of years of being in

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change, Prometheus was freed by Heracles, another God.

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And I think Heracles was the son of Zeus.

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Heracles freed Prometheus from the chains.

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And of course, we know who the Heracles

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is in American history was Heracles figure.

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It's Ayn Rand who freed who

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released Reason Again on the world.

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So it was rich in metaphor.

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Blending them in into this nonfiction book was

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what made it exciting for me and different

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from a different treatment of American history than

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any that I'm aware of before.

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So that's the story of that book. Okay.

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Well, I would say the fire that Prometheus

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stole is the quote Light of Reason.

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Yes, I should have made that

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should have made that clear.

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But absolutely, yes, that you mentioned, Kevin, because we

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have played around to find a symbol and artwork

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for our show with secular foxhole with binoculars.

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And if it's what kind of

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symbol is for science and reason?

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Should it be light bulb?

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Should it be certain symbol?

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So that's interesting to hear you're saying that.

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And the first book is available in Kindle, but you

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have also done it for free in audio format.

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So I listen to it there.

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And could you tell a little bit, as you

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mentioned, about the God position and the separation of

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Church and state in the introduction of a book?

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What's the question about the separation

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of Church and state and the

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introduction of the book Prometheus connection?

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I don't remember what I wrote.

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Refresh me. Yeah.

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So there you have the myths about the role of

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a religion and that you really separate Church and state.

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You said that people are angry and maybe the gods also,

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and Founding Fathers didn't do enough cut, so to speak.

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And that's why nowadays could sneak in into the

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system again, that people are trying to infiltrate this

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wall with religious other non rational ideas.

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Yes, the religious right is under the guys under

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a term that they probably don't agree with.

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But which scholars mentioned all the time, Christian

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nationalism is the attempt by the religious right

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to keep the myth alive that America was

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founded as a Christian nation and remains a

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Christian nation to this day, in essence.

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So the defiance of America's history was that they stood

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up to God and King and refused to allow them

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authority in the new country that was being founded.

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Now the Christian right will disagree with that

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and argue that that separation never succeeded and

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never really existed because the founders were God

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fearing people and believing God and all that.

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But that whole train of thought is

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I address it in the Promise connection.

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I think it was in chapter probably chapter two.

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No, chapter three.

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I forget that the idea that America is a

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Christian nation, that whole concept has been thoroughly dismissed

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by scholars, and I discussed that summarized the results

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of that conflict in The Prometheus Connection. Okay.

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They've gained more power under Trump, sadly.

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But let's jump over to the newest book,

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though, if you would, The Prometheus Frontier.

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Now you fictionalized the story, so can you give

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us some background on that and some of the

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main characters and what they're all about?

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If you could? Sure.

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Let me give you an indication of

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where the milestones were in my thinking. Sure.

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In The Prometheus Connection, the book

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we were just talking about.

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At the final chapter, I cut the imagination loose

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and imagine a society in which everything is free.

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Coercion has been eliminated, and we

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now have a free society.

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What would that be like?

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It was fun writing that chapter.

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And after finishing the book, now I'm faced with a

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certain amount of depression that this project is over.

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So I start to think, oh, maybe I'll do a

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novel and picking up where The Prometheus Connection left off.

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And so that started my thinking.

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And it started me thinking about things

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like, well, is it really feasible?

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Aren't we progressing towards that as time goes on?

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Or is the current state of the country irreversible?

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And I came to the

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conclusion that it's basically irreversible.

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We need to start over. Okay.

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So that was one of the first milestones in my thinking.

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Well, okay.

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The second was that the gradual approach to

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a free society is still absolutely essential.

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We have to work towards free society bit by bit,

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keeps the fire alive, and it keeps people motivated.

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And the third realization in my thinking, the third

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milestone was that how inspiring vision of an actually

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existing new country free society would be to the

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world, both for those who are working for incremental

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change over time and for foreign countries.

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And it would be the Empire State Building.

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And that iconic, not the Statue of Liberty, that iconic

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symbol that draws people from all over the world.

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That is the value of having a

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fictionalized presentation of a free society, potentially,

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if it's done, if it's unreasonably.

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Well, so that was what led me to get

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into a fictional presentation of a free society.

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And so basically the writing of the novel, to summarize

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real quickly, and then you could take it from there.

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The main force behind it was a vast

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enterprise of industrial enterprise led by a man

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by the name of Maurek Rankel.

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And his enterprise within it, he

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made a vast fortune over time.

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And then within his company, he

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formed a foundation with the charter.

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Within his company, Michael Marie Enterprises, he

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formed a foundation to drive and manage

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the development of a free society.

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Rankel himself had studied philosophy Besides science, and he

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wrote a Declaration of Freedom as his statement to

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the world of how a society should be formed.

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Okay.

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The next step, he acquired an island in

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the Caribbean which had the name Orte, which

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means excellence or virtue in Greek.

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He acquired that island.

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So I tell the story of how that happened. Okay.

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After that, they form rankle within his company.

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He forms a Pain society where the members of

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which are Chartered to work through what it would

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take to take the island of an impoverished Caribbean

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Island and develop it into a free society, a

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flourishing free society like Thomas Paine.

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Kevin, that's it. Yeah.

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When we are recording this, this

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is around Thomas Paine birthday. Isn't that right? Yeah.

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Tomorrow, I believe.

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Great.

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Perfect timing.

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So the last bullet on this is after

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the paint decided it was a ten year.

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That charter was to have all the difficulties worked

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out in the next ten years so that in

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ten years time, they would be the inauguration of

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the island of Arte as the first island nation

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of the Prometheus Frontier, which was the vision was

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that the frontier would eventually be a number of

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Islands in the world that form free societies.

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Adopt free societies.

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What are they represents and former an actual frontier.

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So that's the milestones to the Prometheus Frontier and the

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story, the novel chapter, it's 21 chapters that deal with

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each of these parts, each of these elements.

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All right, well, listen, you've got some great points

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here, and I want to know what do you

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think or what do you hope that the readers

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will take away from the Prometheus Foundation take away

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from the Prometheus Frontier is. Thank you.

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Is the power of the importance of

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having a free society in the world.

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At some point, if you really want to get a

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free society model the value to happen, you need a

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model for the rest of the world to see.

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And for that, I kind of think of,

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again, the Statue of Liberty, that iconic symbol

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of freedom that the statue represented.

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That would be the main takeaway from the novel is that

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here is a fictionalized presentation of what it could look like

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and what the steps were to get to it.

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So to take away not only the fact that

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here is a picture of it, but that there's

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a certain feasibility to it that the book presents.

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There's human capital in the world, an abundance of

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it, looking for a free an island of freedom.

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There's venture capital in the world.

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We know that from all the wealth

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that is in the world being invested.

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And a lot of venture capitalists are Liberty minded.

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They don't have to be Objectivist for this, but

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there's a lot of Liberty minded venture capitalists.

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There's real estate, there's impoverished Islands all

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over the world who could be lifted.

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And many of them are

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paradises, yet they're impoverished.

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Amazing, isn't it?

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But that's the case.

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There is the need to defend against

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a very hostile world to freedom.

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If you're going to do this,

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you need to have defense capability.

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The Prometheus Frontier gets into that and offers how

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that was solved by Rankle and his pain society.

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All right.

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And then above all, there is the philosophy of freedom

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that we all know and love for many years, right? Yes.

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That now exists in the

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world, the philosophy of Objectivism.

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It is the most powerful philosophy for change, and that is

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what drives this whole venture in the knowledge and as it

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has to if such an activity is to be adopted.

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And I pursued.

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All right, Kevin, may I threw a coral

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ball or be like a Devil's advocate? Absolutely.

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I like the idea.

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I like what you have done, created work, and

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it will be like fuel for my spirit.

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And I like the idea of the symbol of the

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Statue of Liberty because you really know about the flame

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and what it's representing, the freedom seeking individuals.

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But where you have during the years, you have had all

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kinds of projects, and we could name names, but we could

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also let it be and people could search for it.

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But it had been like oil platforms

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in the sea with special passports.

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It has been nation between nations, like no man's land.

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And recently, some project in, like, an

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ocean thing that's like a floating country.

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And also in America, you have had, like, a

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state project in a certain area of America during

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the years, and some have been really scams.

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Some haven't had the real foundation.

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Some are developing and pivoting.

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So my question is, is it too

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late, too early or the right time?

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If I read your book, it depends on how you look at it.

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I think I struggle with this.

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It's such a great question.

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I think there are three crucial preconditions if

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you want to get a free society started.

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First of all, you got to have a Southern

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Island and not a sea steady thing, not what

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they did over in Dubai or anything like that.

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So you need to have a sovereign island, and it

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has to be more than a small Caribbean Island.

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Arate in the novel is 1000 sq.

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Mi.

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It's 100 miles long, and it averages 10 miles

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north of south, so it's a thousand square miles.

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And that's a good size.

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You have to have one.

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I believe it needs to be

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something on that order in size.

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So right away, that's a difficult challenge.

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Two other things.

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You need to have an impregnable defense.

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You have to be ready to

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defend it against the hostile world.

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And no one has an impregnable defense in this world.

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So far.

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I offer the possibility some

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ideas that solve that problem.

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It's a lot of science fiction.

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So right now, the other thing that's essentially

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preconditioned is that whoever starts this such adventure,

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if they were going to do it, you

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need to have a declaration of freedom.

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My declaration of freedom, the one that we

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defined for Prometheus Frontier, is chapter nine of

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the book is dedicated to that.

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It's basically a declaration that initiated physical

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coercion in this society is to be

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banished, completely banished from all human affairs.

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So it's basically a declaration of

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appliance for the whole world.

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This is what we're doing.

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It's completely free, and you better respect it.

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So you need the three things.

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Suburban island, the President of

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defense, Declaration of freedom.

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And your question, Martin, was

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how feasible is this, right? Yeah.

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Basically, Southern Island is hard to get

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a Southern Island of 500 sq.

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Mi to 1000 sq. Miles.

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They're out there, there's plenty of Islands.

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But when they're under the sovereignty of another country,

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another sovereign country or so, many of them have

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a long history of oppression, a lot of baggage.

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How do you get around that?

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I got an idea.

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Now, I will prove that out for the universe because

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you have the small island or big island, and nowadays

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you could have every region or country or location.

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We have joked about that and talked

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about that with listeners to our show.

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How many did we have now?

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Was it 50 or how many places in the world, Blair? Right.

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50 down the world.

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And we joked some of we said,

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are they a real country or not?

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And some are maybe not in the list, but should

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be in the list, like Taiwan and so on.

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But there you could see what kind of location it is.

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So every location on map when you

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listen to podcast has a place.

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And many of these have also

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domains like in domain like T. O.

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Is tobacco, I think, for example.

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So out there is probably an island that

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could be interested in trade, for example, with

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domain names and draw attraction for that.

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So my addition would be that you should have also a

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physical and a virtual town hall where you could go and

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talk about this, discuss things, vote and get the process there

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and that you can do virtually and plan ahead.

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Like here in America.

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This is what we have talked about, Blair,

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and I myself about the capitalist party, right? Yeah.

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There you have the foundation where you have manifesto,

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but it's not what I know about not active.

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You can't vote for them.

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You could plan and you have a seat where you

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have a manifesto and people could read and understand and

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apply, and then you could find somewhere elsewhere.

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But, of course, as I said, you have to have these

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pillars and the foundation and that I would be very interested

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in continue to discuss in a civil and in a serious

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and in a rational way, because that has to happen.

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I imagine how the founding father did that.

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And they have debates, they

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have discourse, they have discussions.

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They were not always agreeing with each other. Right.

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It was firing, firing.

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Later on, they United and they

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had the United States of America.

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And right now it would be very important

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to have that because it could inspire others. Yeah.

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So, yeah, I think that could be something,

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and we have a place for that. Blair, right?

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That's right.

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I believe we do.

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All right, Kevin, let me ask you I'm

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going to combine a couple of questions here. Sure.

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And if you'll take in order that I ask

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you the way I ask you, that'd be good.

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What is the hardest thing and the most enjoyable

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thing that you found about writing these two books?

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The hardest thing was anytime I write is

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to actually say what I'm trying to say.

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I have to edit so extensively any time I write.

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And I find that I need to back off

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and usually just simply state what it is.

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And that almost always involves deleting most

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of what I'm trying to say.

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I have made it too complicated.

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So the hardest thing is to be to make it simple and

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to state it simply and not get too bogged down in detail.

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So there's an awful lot of detail I

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could have added to the Prometheus frontier.

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And the Prometheus connection that would have

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to me would have destroyed the book,

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especially the second one, the novel.

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People don't want to read too much detail.

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I don't think you got to get all the

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essentials out and keep it lively and interesting.

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So that was the hardest thing, the most enjoyable to

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take the second question, the most enjoyable part for each

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book was clearly being involved in a project that advances

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the philosophy that's so dear to all of us. Right.

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The philosophy of I read and also I'll add

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to have the ability in today's world to actually

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get a book published on your own.

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It's wonderful that we have the technology that we

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have today for doing this, for self publishing.

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Basically, that's what both these

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books are self published.

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And I'll add one other thing to that is how important it

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was for me to have a dear friend, Alex Blyer, who is

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technologically savvy in how to do this in a way that I

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didn't want to get involved in, the technology of using Amazon and

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what it takes to get a book published.

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Alex Blyer is the man who made

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these books possible, actually bring them into

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the world and get them published.

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And Besides which, he was also a great inspiration to me

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with his spirit, positive spirit for each book, he got excited

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about it, and that meant all the world to me.

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That's great.

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That's what was involved.

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Well, hat tip to Alex Tip.

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Hats off to Alex.

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You read my Acknowledgements on both books and you'll

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see every word I say about him is justified. All right.

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This will be my final question.

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And then, Martin, if you have

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anything, you can certainly chime in.

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But, Kevin, your ideal island

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nation, areite is that correct? Arate? Yes.

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Obviously, the accelerated pace

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toward a worldwide authoritarianism.

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How would that nation survive in this

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world and that kind of world?

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You would think that there's no chance

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and it seems like we're doomed.

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You could take a very pessimistic view like that.

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But if we look at history, the big

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picture throughout history, reason has been victorious.

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I think of some of the famous contrast in

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history between Egypt and Greece, between the Dark Age

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and the Enlightenment, between East Berlin and West Berlin,

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between North Korea, South Korea, all of these.

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You have an example of reason

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triumphant over a non reason.

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So that's the big picture to me.

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But as far as ourater goes now, think of this.

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Think of the famous brain drains in history,

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modern history in particular, where you build it

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and they will come type of thing happens. Sure.

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There's a brain drain to free countries.

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There's a brain drain to the icons of freedom,

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even the Statue of Liberty and the Prometheus way.

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So the greatest minds in the world, many of

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them would flock to a country like ariday I

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mean, really free country, with the Declaration of Freedom,

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banishing entirely, banishing initiated physical coercion or the threat

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thereof, there would be an absolute brain drain just

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from that fact alone, the fact that it exists.

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And here's the last thing I

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would offer in response to that.

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And that is that a country like areate, an island

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like areate will never want for friends in the world.

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And that includes the United

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States of America above all.

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Well said. Martin.

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Are you all set? Yeah.

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And I think we could continue this conversation

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in cyberspace and on our digital town hall.

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And that will be included in the

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show notes because then we can have

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what your great work and inspiration, Kevin?

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So the light will keep burning, so to speak.

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I'd love it.

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And we could invite others that have been reading your book

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and listen to this episode and having a conversation about that,

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what to do and how to apply it to life.

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As we said in the green room, if you

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fight for a second Renaissance for the future, you're

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living in it today, as Wren said.

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Yes, absolutely.

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And also to describe it as you did and also

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how you talk as an artist and creator and a

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writer, the process and doing it for selfish reason.

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And then to see that feedback, positive feedback in

Speaker: 00:29:54

the exchange and people buying your books and reading

Speaker: 00:29:57

it and spreading the good word and so on.

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And that could inspire others to do that, writing

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their own book and publish their own thing.

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Isn't that a great thought?

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It's a wonderful thought.

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And yeah, we need vision.

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We need more vision and inspiration and focus

Speaker: 00:30:17

on the positive and what's possible out there

Speaker: 00:30:19

in the great world that we live in. That is true.

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That is true, Kevin.

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Working people find you on

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the Web per Prometheusconnection.com. All right.

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Mutechicon.com for that story,

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that fable, the fablecon.

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But Prometheusconnection.com is a good starting place.

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All right. Just go ahead.

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And we talked about in the green

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room, and it slipped my mind. I'm sorry.

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Just give a brief outline of mutekan

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again, because I really like that.

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Mutechan is a fable.

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Mutekon means invincible spirit, and the invincible spirit

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is the creature featured in the story, which

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is based on a Golden Eagle, the largest

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of the Eagle, I believe.

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And it's a short story that I illustrated.

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So it's a picture book, actually, I think it's not

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much more than 1000 words or 1500 words total illustrations

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of this very short story that make the whole book.

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And if you go to mutekycon.com, you

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can run the trailer of the DVD.

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It's published in a DVD, by the way.

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It's available in a DVD.

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The trailer gives you a good representation

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of the artwork and the story.

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And my sound guy did just a fantastic job on that.

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That's a good picture of what it's all about.

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Also, it's a children's fable.

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And did you picture an age range or does it matter?

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Did I picture it on what an age range for children?

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I think it reads in the description on the

Speaker: 00:32:14

website, ages seven and up or six and up. Okay.

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But it's for all ages above a certain age.

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I don't know.

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That it's for really young children anyway. All right.

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Okay. Great.

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And it's good to have it in,

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as I said, DVD something physical.

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But I have an idea where also we could continue

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and talking in the future how you could maybe transform

Speaker: 00:32:40

it in other ways and you could then distribute if

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you still have that possibility with the content and you

Speaker: 00:32:47

could distribute it in different ways.

Speaker: 00:32:49

We could talk about how we could do that,

Speaker: 00:32:52

thanks to inventors, capitalist, investors, tech entrepreneurs, you could

Speaker: 00:32:58

now stream it in different ways so we can

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talk about that because the younger generation, they know

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how to consume content in different ways.

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My sound guy told me at one point you

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should really make it free on the Internet.

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And I went along with that.

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I basically just about give away the book, the DVD,

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to anyone who writes, emails me and asks for and

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just send me the postage for that, not in advance.

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Afterwards, I put it in my

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about the author in my novel.

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I put it in there that if you want.

Speaker: 00:33:39

Buteky Khan DVD just email me and I'll send

Speaker: 00:33:43

it and it's $5, no payment required in advance.

Speaker: 00:33:47

So I'm giving it away.

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And you could pay me $5 after

Speaker: 00:33:52

the fact for postage if you want.

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I really don't care.

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I like the idea in a way, and

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we could do that with the twist.

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So I have some marketing ideas how you can make

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that connection, because then somebody a young mind, but it

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could be somebody young in mind and heart and older

Speaker: 00:34:14

person also get that fuel again for the soul.

Speaker: 00:34:18

And you have this contact that people contact you

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with the station so on and keep that conversation

Speaker: 00:34:23

and if you could give some other alternatives, maybe

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they want to stream it but still give a

Speaker: 00:34:29

donation or being on mailing list or whatever, then

Speaker: 00:34:33

you have that great connection there.

Speaker: 00:34:36

So I think that's a great idea of you

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and I think we could maybe adding some alternatives

Speaker: 00:34:43

to that terrific word that'd be marvelous.

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All right, well, today we've been talking

Speaker: 00:34:49

to Kevin Osborne, author of The Prometheus

Speaker: 00:34:52

Connection and The Prometheus frontier.

Speaker: 00:34:55

Kevin, thanks for Manning the foxhole with us today.

Speaker: 00:34:58

It was my great pleasure. Thank you, guys. Thank you.

Speaker: 00:35:01

You're welcome, Kevin.

Speaker: 00:35:02

Thank you, Larry Martin. Yeah.